Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/08/1999 08:05 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 27-ALASKA/RUSSIA MARITIME BOUNDARY CHAIR JAMES announced HJR 27, Relating to the maritime boundary between Alaska and the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, is before the committee. She noted HJR 27 is similar to HJR 26, but is a different location. Number 172 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL said he distributed suggested amendments that were suggested by Representative Berkowitz which made it more diplomatic in his view. He noted that there has been some dispute over the spelling of Wrangell. Page 1, line 9, changes the spelling of Wrangel to Wrangell. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL referred to page 2, line 26, and instructed the members to delete "failed to" and insert the word "not." REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL explained there hasn't been negotiation between Russia and America on this. He emphasized one of the things that the legislature is asking in this resolution is that Alaska be involved it. He added, "But there has been a failure, and they did not in fact ratify it from the Russian side." CHAIR JAMES asked if a "d" should to be added to the word approve. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied yes. [The following has been revised]: WHEREAS the U.S.S.R. and its successor, Russia, have not approved the proposed treaty agreement, and the agreement has not been put into force as a treaty; and Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL also instructed the members to delete lines 6 thru 8, page 3, which dealt with a particular secretary of state that is no longer there. That was also a recommendation by Representative Berkowitz. Delete: WHEREAS the authority of the Secretary of State to establish on his own a maritime boundary that has implications for land territory, seabed jurisdiction, sovereignty, and Alaska property raises questions of constitutionality and personal culpability; and On page 3, delete lines 14 thru 30 and insert the following revision: BE IT RESOLVED by the Alaska State Legislature that, because the proposed United States - U.S.S.R. maritime Boundary Agreement has not been put into force, negotiations for the proposed treaty should include participation by the State of Alaska, and terms in a new proposed treaty regarding Alaska's territory, sovereignty, or property should involve representatives of the State of Alaska; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature considers participation of the State of Alaska to be essential in a [to the] validity of the executive agreement, requests the United States Department of State to report any and all acts and directives regarding implementation of the executive agreement, and respectfully requests the Governor and the Attorney General of Alaska to investigate whether any actions in this matter are not consistent with law and to report on their findings to the Legislature prior to the next regular session; and be it FURTHER RESOLVE[D] that the Alaska State Legislature urges the Alaska delegation in the United States Congress to promote and pursue the views expressed in this resolution, especially the need for Alaska representation in negotiations over setting a maritime boundary between the state and eastern Russia; Number 264 On page 4, delete line 1 and insert: maritime boundary between Alaska and eastern Russia is a constitutional issue of states' rights and Number 275 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to adopt the proposed amendment. There being no objection, it was so ordered. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL pointed out that HJR 27 is an important resolution that brings to light the need to establish/settle maritime boundaries between Russia and Alaska. Due to the change in the U.S.S.R. to Russia, that was never ratified and is still a big question. He noted that Alaska is directly affected by it in a variety of different ways: in the fishing area, in some of the lands that will be involved which include some of the islands that are in the Chukchi Sea. Those issues have yet to be resolved. House Joint Resolution 27 states that Alaska be part of that negotiation and it also requests those negotiations begin. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she has the same types of concerns with HJR 27 as she had with HJR 26. She said, "I would also like to see it held over so that I can contact the State Department and ask them what their position is. Especially when we start talking about Wrangell Island and some of the other ones. In the sponsor statement there's mention about when Wrangell was discovered in the 1800s. But my understanding, and the research that I've seen, is that those islands were discovered much earlier than that by indigenous people who lived there and that those people became Russian. So I feel real strongly that, you know, failure of recognition of those people and their rights, and, you know, Deshnev [Russian explorer/early 1600s] after them really needs to be taken into account here, and I'm not going to feel comfortable on this unless we have some point of view from the State Department." CHAIR JAMES remarked that if they negotiated a settlement of the maritime boundary, those are the issues they would determine. She said she fails to understand why people don't want to get to a conclusion. Number 335 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she is not unhappy to get to a conclusion. She stated that she wants to know what the positions are and how it actually affects us. She emphasized that she dislikes talking about when the islands were discovered and completely disregarding 100s of years of history prior to that. Therefore, she thinks it an important point. CHAIR JAMES noted that she has been studying that issue for a number of years and is aware of that. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he strongly supports HJR 27 and recalled Chair James sponsoring similar legislation. He stated that, "I do think, unlike another area where we may have a conflicting or a dual treaty negotiations that could affect the livelihood of Alaskans, there's nothing like that involved in this particular settlement. ... This may be a time - because of the dissolution of the old U.S.S.R. that changes the economic changes and the social changes that are occurring up there may give our State Department - and we may be stimulating them to go back into negotiations and resolve these delicate lines up there because they're very important to resolve them: mineralogy - as you know, transportation, some fisheries, and things like that are really important." He believed that HJR 27 is timely and should be pursued. CHAIR JAMES reiterated her agreement that it is timely, particularly since she has been working on getting a railroad from Canada and to Russia and thinks we're getting closer and closer to that reality. But, in order to do that Alaska has to have a treaty with Russia, and there's no better time to be negotiating maritime boundaries when you're having to have another agreement that has a very positive effect on Russia and on Alaska. Number 381 REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL pointed out that it has been brought to the attention of the Department of Interior, Secretary Albright has been written to and there's been no response. Representative Coghill said, in regard to that, we shouldn't wait for them to respond, we should ask them to initiate action. To try to do that before we send a resolution at this point, he believes, would be futile. So, HJR 27 gets the legislature to agree to a resolution stating that we want to be at that negotiation and that the negotiation should begin, and the time is now. So, to hold this up would be very unfortunate. Number 401 CAPTAIN VINCE O'SHEA, United States Coast Guard, came before the committee. He noted the State Department has a position on this which is the 1990 agreement that was initiated with the Russians after ten years of negotiation. That agreement was ratified by the United States Senate in 1992. He said the issue is, that in going from the Soviet Union to the Russian Federation, the Russians have failed to ratify that 1990 agreement. So going back to the State Department and saying, "We want you to solve the boundary line," quite frankly their going to say, "So do we." Captain O'Shea indicated that the ball in many ways is in the Russian court on this. He said there is an ongoing series of high-level meetings involving then-Ambassador Thomas Pickering [Under Secretary of State], at the State Department. He said Under Secretary of State Pickering is sort of the United States point person on this - and it's been going on for about three years now - a series of offers, and counter offers back and forth. CAPTAIN O'SHEA said President Yeltsin has not submitted this agreement to the Duma [equivalent of U.S. Senate] because he understands he does not have the votes to ratify the 1990 agreement. Captain O'Shea said Russia has agreed to provisionally apply the 1990 agreement. And, at times of the year Alaska has up to 120 foreign factory trawlers that are fishing along this line [referring to a map], and we have a continuous Coast Guard cutter up there. He said, "Quite frankly, whether the boundary gets to be resolved or not, as long as there's fish there, you're not going to get us out of the job of having to be up there." CAPTAIN O'SHEA continued, "What I'm saying to the Russian's credit, quite frankly is they have agreed to abide operationally to the 1990 line. And, in fact, at the latest meeting that I was at in Seattle, in January, they announced that they have established a voluntary five-mile line on their side to keep those factory trawlers away from the line to avoid coming into our waters." He pointed out that the Bering Sea Fisheries Advisory Board advises the State Department and the board consists of industry representatives (both from the state of Alaska and from the Seattle area), factory trawler and fishing groups are part of the negotiated team which is dealing with that issue. From his understanding, HJR 27 is consistent with a lot of the things that are already taking place. Number 453 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Captain O'Shea what is the State Department's official position is on Wrangell Island. CAPTAIN O'SHEA said he can't respond to that because he is familiar with the south area, and mostly with regard to fisheries in the Bering Sea. CHAIR JAMES suggested Representative Kerttula conduct her investigation and present her findings on the House floor. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA reiterated that her greatest concern is over the islands. Our claims start to sound much like we aren't taking into account the previous territorial claims of the indigenous people. She said she will do the research and will provide that information. Number 474 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON moved to report CSHJR 27(STA) out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal note. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
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